POKER TO RETURN TO BETCOIN.AG

Poker will return to Betcoin.ag the week of 26, January 2018 with no restrictions.

by Betcoin on January 17th, 2018

In our attempt to calculate and repay Bad Beat Jackpot contributions precisely to those players that contributed them it was determined that each contribution cannot be determined with 100% accuracy. Without this 100% transparency and accuracy we believe the redistribution was unacceptable.

During this review process we consulted poker executives and players and all confirmed that the most transparent and best way was to open poker back up and lower the requirements of the bad beat jackpot until it is earned by the players. Our goal is to do the right thing and remain fully transparent therefore poker will open back up to everyone and the bad beat jackpot requirements will be lowered. As a result of this change in direction, some Staff members will be leaving the company and will be replaced. Players will have full access to ring games, table games, jackpots, tournaments and more.

We are modifying the rules of the BBJP in order to make sure they are crystal clear and we expect a posted update to the rules by Monday, 22, January 2018 and we expect poker to resume in full the week of the 26, January 2018.

We want to thank everyone for the great feedback and assistance in this matter. We are dedicated to making Betcoin.ag the best place in the world to play.

 Filed under: Poker

146 Comments

PokeHerStars: LMFAO
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:14

Betcoin: hey guys, sorry about shutting down poker and taking the BBJ. We've decided to return within 2 weeks. BTW, we're new anonymous management...you can tell because we all have different screen names!

Players: awesome, thanks for making amends.

Betcoin: Lol we didn't understand the data well enough for our original promise, so we had to hire old staff. Give us two more days.

Players: Okay...

Betcoin: We're continually sifting through the data [no ETA this time or explanation]

Players: ...

Betcoin: Lol, good news! We're not paying out but we're reopening the cash games and will let you all play for a chance to win a portion of the BBJ! Even though we will never pay it all out at once, we totally have it -- trust us! Just redeposit to play, despite our earlier broken commitments. We totally swear these lies were only terrible mismanagement and nothing sinister.

btw, remember when the BBJ was hit the first time and the following image didn't exist?
https://www.betcoin.ag/files/betcoin/styles/large/public/images/bbjtable...

People actually thought they had the funds then, but would falsely advertise and add a rule later to avoid paying. GL getting fish this time.

michigan1: Joke
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:17

What a joke this has turned into. What about all of us players that have contibuted alot to bbjp that dont have funds here now!!

PokeHerStars: just redeposit to the totally
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:18

just redeposit to the totally not shady site with totally new management (they swear). LOL.

jaydaddy: I BELIEVE THIS IS THE FAIREST
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:25

I BELIEVE THIS IS THE FAIREST WAY TO DO THINGS! thanks for the chance to play here again i love this site its where i played my trnys from and some cash but LOVE THE SLOTS LOL

spaced: Is the room reopening permanently
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:32

Or is this just temporary until the bbj is hit?

LivingLife: can anyone prove the funds exist
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:34

at this point I would just like the funds verified before I put more money on

seanrc: Like the gold in Fort Knox
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:53

You just have to believe its there

abdou: Good Good news
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 22:48

Good news grace

Gobiboom: The idea that you can't
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 23:20

The idea that you can't calculate who is owed what from the bad beat jackpot is frankly 100% bullshit. Absolute 100% bullshit. But lets follow that line of thinking: if you can't, your admitting your programmers/employees are completely inept which is something I've told you for years now. You've had security breaches which were so pervasive that I could only conclude the programmers were complicit, indeed, security breaches were finally the excuse you used for closing down the poker room. If any legit player thinks they are going to hit the bbj, I've got a bridge to sell you. New boss same as the old boss (in this case literally).

zzzzzz: Please attach your forensics CV
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 23:48

Not trolling...

Think about the number of database tables and calculations required to be accurate to the satoshi.

It's easy to look on a spreadsheet and see the value of a single cell.

It's difficult to run it in reverse.

And to the naysayers saying show me the bitcoin.. there are several currencies accepted and it's not like funds are held in a hot wallet waiting to be hit. That wouldn't be smart...

Sure, some of the sites players have scammed the far to complacent support staff for tons of your money -- betcoin has always covered those loses and paid out -- so just chill out.

Apparently the management here believes this is the best route. If you're sitting on such an effective and brilliant solution, anyone, then I welcome it but you should have spoke up over the past 3 weeks.

I for one and still saying PROVE IT -- and anyone who thinks Im pulling strings they simply don't know me. I've always worked for the players, not the house.

twitchyseal: Have you ever used
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 23:55

Have you ever used pokertracker or Holdem Manager?

Anyone familiar with this software could easily analyze millions and millions of hands. Creating a custom "bbjp contribution" stat would be done easily.

20 million hands? Might be a bit of a pain to do in one day depending on your setup.

Challenge to anyone:

send me 1 million hands
send someone else that knows how to use PT4 or HEM 1 million hands

we will both be able to calculate exactly how much every player contributed to the BBJP.

zzzzzz: This shows your lack of comprehension..
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 00:05

I used the term spreadsheet for those, like you, who aren't familiar with how databases are handled in general.

Again,... if you have an effective realistic solution Twitchy, and you've been working with management, then you should have spoken up weeks ago. I was told they were trying to work it out... just like you were.

If y'all want to get together and upload all your hand histories together then go right ahead -- but it works a little different on the backend in my experience (not speaking for betcoin cause I have no clue). I know what y'all know.. just a little ahead of you.

Gobiboom: What?
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 00:10

"but you should have spoke up over the past 3 weeks" What are you talking about? Betcoin told us they were doing it. This is our fault now? LOL classic Betcoin.

zzzzzz: I see your point..
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 00:15

Gobi, my name is Z, and I was speaking to Twitchy when I mentioned the solution.

Twitchy, Dont blame me for betcoins fuckup

Gobiboom: " If you're sitting on such
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 02:03

" If you're sitting on such an effective and brilliant solution, anyone, then I welcome it but you should have spoke up over the past 3 weeks."

You were speaking to "anyone" that was registering their valid complaints. Again, there was no reason to speak up, as Betcoin claimed to be doing this very thing all along: figuring out who is owed what from the bbj. Which I want to stress again is not complicated at all and when they claim they can't, they are outright lying to us. If you have hand histories, you can figure it out. If you programmed the rake to be taken for the bbj, you can figure it out. It is not rocket science. It's not even programming, really.

twitchyseal: also gobi is right
Wed, 01/17/2018 - 23:30

also gobi is right

cycovizion: If you can't figure out the
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 01:21

If you can't figure out the BBJP contribution then it could be split up in other ways based on money raked by each player/status level/VIP points. Really seems like you are opening back up poker so you don't have to pay it out OR you don't even have the money in the first place. I can't imagine people coming back to play on this site after how this was handled.

spaced: i will play here
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 01:58

if things are changed like the rake structure, also, why would they payout the bad beat jackpot if they are reinstating the poker room. I am fine with this, theres really no argument to be made with this decision.

Mentat: hm..
Mon, 01/29/2018 - 15:25

hm..

EyeWonBTC: Status Level and/or VIP Points are both irrelevant
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 02:28

You could be any VIP level and have never played a single cash game hand. Therefore, you always had a 0 chance of hitting the BBJ.

kcheat123: BS
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 06:23

What's about US Players ? We played here a lot now We can't deposit nor get BBJP ?? That is BullS***. Better make something CRYSTAL CLEAR ---

plo8monster: To be clear, yes, we will be
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 07:24

To be clear, yes, we will be opening back up to USA players.
you will have full access to the site, as before.

~~plo8

plo8monster: Bottom line as i see it.
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 08:23

The site was quite successful prior to current changes. There were difficulties that poker presented which the new management felt were not worth the trouble to deal with. Straight up honest they felt it was to labor intensive and to many disgruntled players.

Our staff, are absolutely committed to excellent customer service, and we will get there. The thing is, I believe what people perceive is very real to them, and the recent shuffling of the site's mission gives you every right to ask questions.
First of all, Yes, of course, Betcoin has the BBJP money.
(Betcoin holds large reserves, and the BBJP is only a fraction)
Secondly, there is no ulterior motive.
Betcoin in an effort to do the fairest, and the equitable thing for everyone involved, is reopening the site for poker and USA players.

The Thing is: we now as players, have the same chances as we have always had to win the BBJP, only better! Now the astronomical odds will progressively lower and become obtainable. This will happen as requirements (Qualifying Hands) are reduced. (Thank you OHYEAH, honestly, your feedback on this process is incredibly helpful)

This is the industries standard way BBJP are dispersed when a large BBJP are being discontinued. I seriously doubt Betcoin would ever consider another BBJP. However, we have built in all kinds of cool features for poker players, which will come into play as the site grows.

I get it, and I understand your concerns. But again, the bottom line this is the best solution. We welcome your feedback as to how to make this site awesome.
Play and win, or watch. We will respect the choices you make and happily welcome you back as always, should you decide to wait. Perfectly understandable.

We are doing what we feel is right and best. We are also painfully aware that will not be good enough for some players, we do understand, and for that, we apologize.
Betcoin is renewing our commitment to provide you the very best, online poker experience, in a safe and pleasant environment. We are sincere when we ask you for actionable feedback towards that goal.

~~plo8

seanrc: Make Betcoin Great Again
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 08:48

Glad to see the return of poker, Cant wait to hit the felts. As always thank you and zzzzzz as well as Betcoin for all you do

Oldstuff: I was never a disgruntled player when it came to Mgmt but.....
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 18:17

I was never a disgruntled player when it came to Mgmt they always treated me more than fair but..... promising to distribute the BBJ (and collecting whatever small share I had coming) then altering course to making it a crap shoot for those who choose to continue to play here is pretty disgruntling.

SuperdaveUp1: Plo8's comments
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 05:51

Well said plo8. A+

BigBadMan: FFS....
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 08:55

Deleted the poker client yesterday...........

oh well.. cya all on th 26th .. I guess ??

SERIOUSLY: Consider this....
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 10:58

Your site has been DISHONEST (Jason Ort, Xiao, ETC)

Your site has been DISRESPECTFUL ("according to the terms and conditions the BBJ is a promotion and as such Betcoin can terminate the promotion without notice....")

Your staff has been UNPROFESSIONAL (too many instances to choose from)

YOU REMOVE POKER FROM THE SITE & BLOCK US PLAYERS ON CHRISTMAS DAY (HEATHENS)

You try to steal the BBJ, YOU REALIZED THAT WAS STUPID.... YOU PUBLISH A STATEMENT THAT YOU WILL DISTRIBUTE THE FUNDS BY A DATE THAT HAS COME & GONE

YOU PUBLISH A NEW STATEMENT THAT POKER WILL RETURN IN 10 DAYS & RETRACT YOUR PROMISE TO DISTRIBUTE THE BBJ - OFFERING PLAYERS A CHANCE TO WIN IT BY DEPOSITING AND PLAYING HERE....

WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO PLAY HERE?

THE PLAYER WHO STOLE THE MOST FROM YOU RECEIVES A WEEKLY PAYMENT FOR PROVIDING CONTENT - YOU ARE FOOLISH & INEPT TO RUN A POKER ROOM. I HOPE WPN HAS CUT THEIR TIES WITH YOU FOR GOOD!

PLAYERS I HOPE YOU FIND A POKER ROOM THAT YOU CAN TRUST WITH YOUR CRYPTO BECAUSE BETCOIN IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED!

plo8monster: Thanks, Jenna we do
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 14:12

Thanks, Jenna we do understand player emotions about this. And will gladly accept actionable feedback.
Just know, it matters to me what you feel.
I don't like the way you are going about it, but hey that's ok also. I would never discount how you feel.
We are reopening the site to all players and simply Guaranteeing the BBJP WILL BE WON.
If your this unhappy about that, and you truly feel we shouldn't be trusted, then I hope you find a place to be happy. Always loved the happiness you spread.
If over time you decide to give us a chance, we will welcome you. (I will especially).
Wishing you the best Jenna, we want you to be happy even if that doesn't include Betcoin

~~plo8

betbetbet: What do you complainers propose as a solution?
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 11:47

Okay, at this point, what do all you complainers think they should do given the circumstances? Reopening the poker room is probably the best decision to make. I mean, no matter what the outcome they choose you're bound to complain no matter what it is. Don't fuck this up for us complainers. Don't you want to play poker again on pretty much the softest site out there?

nsinalis11: Poker
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 15:41

At last i liked a lot playing with bitcoins haha thank you betcoin

spaced: Question
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 17:46

Will the requirements be lowered consistently until it is won or will this be around for another 3 to 4 years

zzzzzz: lowered consistently
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 19:53

lowered consistently

oriole: Well done Betcoin on figuring
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 17:51

Well done Betcoin on figuring out how to steal BJ while no one will be able to prove it. As an added bonus you will also get some fools to deposit and chase it. Well played! :)

jaydaddy: STOP THE COMPLAINING EVERYONE
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 17:54

no matter whats decided you will not satisfy everyone these people have enough money to buy this site idont think they care about a few thousand dollars i might play with seriously...... GET REAL CRITICS

Logic: Poor Business Strategy
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 18:32

I have played on this site for a very long time. Although there have been sketchy moments, I have always been able to withdraw without much of an issue. I understand at this point it is impossible to make everyone happy, but this is the worst possible thing you could do as a "new" company and will definitely cause you to lose many players; old, new, and future.

You now have no credibility. I 100% understood that it was ambitious to say you would have it sorted out by the end of the first week of January. However after realizing that was impossible you should've announced a clear, thought out plan rather than just create new updates pushing it off until you got to this point. You didn't even go through with your original plan, which got the hopes up of many many players, including myself. People pestered you for transparency and to do it the "right way" but at the end of the day executing it with a carefully thought out plan to the best of your ability was the right way.

Now you have hurt your reputation and trust, disappointed your existing player base, and probably lost more profit from people potentially playing with their BBJ winnings/never logging in again to find them than you stand to gain with the advertisement of a BBJ that you have a history of mishandling.

PS: You should at least edit the original BBJ thread, I have been checking it for updates without checking this thread.

twitchyseal: BBJP Brainstorming
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 20:25

I just shared my thoughts on how the BBJP could be changed for the better with support. Interested in any thoughts other players have.

As far as the rules of the BBJP ( https://www.betcoin.ag/support/what-are-rules-bad-beat-jackpot ) here are my thoughts.

1 - Jackpot shares depending on stakes.
2 - Player cards that must be played.
3 - Minimum hand requirements.

======================

1 - Jackpot shares depending on stakes.

Currently the way I interpret the rules, the cut of the entire Jackpot is determined by the stakes of the table , 20% for .10/.25 and lower, 50% for .25/.5 - 2/4 and 100% for 5/10+ ( http://www.betcoin.ag/files/betcoin/images/bbjtablelimits.PNG )

Two issues:

First, the wording is a bit ambiguous. "Table low bet range" is poorly worded. Just state the stakes that qualify, like I did above.

Second, and more importantly, the portion of the BBJP that is rewarded should be determined on the BBJP fee, not the table stakes. You're taking .01 mbtc from every bbjp eligible hand, regardless of stakes, therefore you should award the same percentage of the jackpot.

If you want to charge 5/10+ players 5 times the BBJP fee as the lowest stakes, it would be reasonable to award 5 times the percentage of the BBJP.

Personally, I think you should keep the BBJP fee consistent (.01 mbtc per hand) and 100% of the Jackpot should rewarded regardless of stake. Indeed, the higher stakes players will inevitably be paying more rake, but they are paying the same BBJP fee as the lowest stakes players. It's not fair to reward the higher stakes players simply because they are paying more rake. The higher rake doesn't go to the BBJP - only the BBJP fee does.

Hope that makes sense - let me know if it doesn't.

============================

2 - Player cards that must be played.

Currently the rule states "Please remember: the last cards in both your and your opponent’s hand should play – this is a mandatory condition."

This just doesn't make sense.

I interpret it as "The winner and loser of the qualifying hand must each play both hole cards"

If you want to keep it this way, you should reword it. "the last cards in both your and your opponent's hand" doesn't make sense grammatically or poker-wise. You only get two cards, why call them your "last cards"?

If you want the BBJP to hit more often, like once or twice a month' I would recommend dropping this requirement totally. This would open up the possibility of multiple players qualifying for the losing hand, but that's fine.

Example of a hand that would qualify without this requirement:

Player A holds K2
Player B holds J2
Player C holds 23

Board is AAAA2.

Player A would win the hand playing AAAAK
Player B would lose with AAAAJ
Player C would lose with AAAA3

The hand would qualify for BBJP because quad aces lost.

Player A would receive whatever % that was predetermined for the winning hand for BBJP.

You would have to specify in the rules what happened regarding player B and C.

First option would be to reward player B the entire losers cut, since they had the best losing qualifying hand.
Second option would be to have player B and C split the losers cut since they each held qualifying losing hands.

Either option would be fair, as long as it was explicitly explained in the rules.

==========================

3 - Minimum hand requirements.

Currently the minimum qualifying BBJP hand is quad Jacks- "lose a hand containing 4 “Jacks” (or better)!"

Assuming you want see the BBJP hit once or twice a month,
I think you should start it off at a straight flush, and then lower it once every 24 hours.

Day 1 - Straight fush
Day2 - AAAA
Day3 -KKKK
Day4 -QQQQ
...
Day 14 2222
Day 15 AAAKK
Day 16 AAAQQ
Day 17 AAAJJ
...
Day 26 - AAA22
Day 27 - KKKAA
Day 28 - KKKQQ
Day 29 - KKKJJ

As soon as the jackpot is hit, the minimum requirement would be reset to straight flush and we start all over again.

Mentat: Before I answer this post, I
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 16:31

Before I answer this post, I want to point out that when I answered an earlier topic, specifically, the link you posted above, the response was not shown in the forums.

So I don't know if I should bother answering your post here, either, OHYEAH .....

But I probably will just because

Mentat: fuck it
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 16:37

fuck it

Mentat: Update -
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 16:52

Update -

It looks like it was just a bug in the recent activity log

Mentat: dear twitchy seal
Fri, 02/02/2018 - 17:15

.
.
.
.


.
.
.
.
greaT do$T (post)
o yeah

I will come back to this one......................................

or not

Mentat: ps - you didn't have to type
Fri, 02/02/2018 - 17:17

ps - you didn't have to type out all of that shit but i read it in a blink of an eye ok man

and yeah

all you had to do was post the picture that I just posted for you

right there

thank you

kthxbai ~~~~~~~~~~~~ 8905678

twitchyseal: Also, I just realized that
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 20:28

Also, I just realized that with my rules, it would be possible for the two players to have the same winning qualifying hand. So that would also need to be addressed ( I think the only real option would be for them to split the winners cut)

Example

Player A has KK
Player B has KQ
Player C has QQ

Board is AAAA2

Player A and B would chop the pot and player C would qualify for BBJP by losing with AAAAQ

spaced: just remove the bbj
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 21:17

and don't even have the tables listed from the get go. it don't work

Mentat: do you see the gap between
Fri, 02/02/2018 - 18:12

do you see the gap between the green and purple?

please advise

ps sorry i cant converse in thinly veiled bullshit typing like you

cjmoles: Well....if all the banned
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 23:36

Well....if all the banned cheating multi accounters are allowed to participate, then I guess the site is back on track....I just want all my funds back I spent on this cheating scumbag site....how many multi accounters will be on the same cash tables shooting for that progressively easier BBJ?????

cjmoles: This "solution" is a
Thu, 01/18/2018 - 23:59

This "solution" is a colluding multi accounters dream....LOL....I wonder what kind of "Skype Team" came up with this plan?

makeitso: LOL open for cash games
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 00:48

What's the point in coming back without the ACR tournament pool? It was the only good thing about betcoin anyway. This has been handled so terribly I'll just stick with SWC.

spaced: they are going to have wpn tournaments
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 01:01

from what I understand anyway.

oOBehindYOUOo: Lol same clowns piss and moan.
Fri, 01/19/2018 - 01:09

I mean just shut the fuck up and let the shitshow begin. Welcome back All shapes, sizes ,shades of shit, fattys, degenerates, colluders, multi accounters, profitable players, pieces of shit, and all around good guys. Lol 😂 I’m so glad to be home with these responsible worldly creatures. Does anyone else get kind of a bitter sweet shit taste or is it just the decent human sect of the group? Hahahaha

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